Comments on: Fun and Games with Major Updates http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/ Fri, 27 Jan 2012 15:12:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Major update to Firefox 3.5 http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-33406 John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Major update to Firefox 3.5 Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:16:10 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-33406 [...] (For details on race conditions where people dont see the major update dialog box and on the “update fatigue” debate, see: here, here, here, here, and finally here.) 3) Nick Thomas led a bunch of significant cleanup in RelEng infrastructure, so we can now create major updates quite easily and reliably. [...] [...] (For details on race conditions where people dont see the major update dialog box and on the “update fatigue” debate, see: here, here, here, here, and finally here.) 3) Nick Thomas led a bunch of significant cleanup in RelEng infrastructure, so we can now create major updates quite easily and reliably. [...]

]]> By: John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (some new options) http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23330 John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (some new options) Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:55:47 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23330 [...] After the last few blog posts [1], [2], [3] explaining details of some gotchas, here are a few mechanical ideas which might help. I’m not sure which, if any, make sense to try, but wanted to point out some new options we have available to us now after infrastructure improvements over the last year, and would love to hear what people thought. [...] [...] After the last few blog posts [1], [2], [3] explaining details of some gotchas, here are a few mechanical ideas which might help. I’m not sure which, if any, make sense to try, but wanted to point out some new options we have available to us now after infrastructure improvements over the last year, and would love to hear what people thought. [...]

]]> By: John http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23308 John Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:14:37 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23308 "I know this is off topic … but I’d like to know what you used to make those lil diagrams in this blog post. Comment by Curious" Heh, sure. I'm using OmniGraffle (http://omnigroup.com) on my Mac OSX 10.5. There might be other things that work better/faster, but this works really well for me. For something as complex as all this "race-condition during update cycles" problem, I found the simple line drawings I could create with OmniGraffle worked best. And hey, they are the nearest I could get to the whiteboard-diagrams-with-handwaving that I've scribbled on various whiteboards and napkins around Mozilla whenever someone asks me questions about all this. :-) tc John. “I know this is off topic … but I’d like to know what you used to make those lil diagrams in this blog post.
Comment by Curious”

Heh, sure. I’m using OmniGraffle (http://omnigroup.com) on my Mac OSX 10.5. There might be other things that work better/faster, but this works really well for me.

For something as complex as all this “race-condition during update cycles” problem, I found the simple line drawings I could create with OmniGraffle worked best. And hey, they are the nearest I could get to the whiteboard-diagrams-with-handwaving that I’ve scribbled on various whiteboards and napkins around Mozilla whenever someone asks me questions about all this. :-)

tc
John.

]]> By: John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (followup) http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23305 John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (followup) Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:02:36 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23305 [...] There were lots of comments and questions raised from the last two blog posts [1] [2]. As some people were asking variations of the same questions, I thought it would be less confusing to summarize the questions and answers all here instead of replying in comment threads. Please let me know if I missed any of the comments, or misunderstood the questions, ok? [...] [...] There were lots of comments and questions raised from the last two blog posts [1] [2]. As some people were asking variations of the same questions, I thought it would be less confusing to summarize the questions and answers all here instead of replying in comment threads. Please let me know if I missed any of the comments, or misunderstood the questions, ok? [...]

]]> By: Ian Thomas (thelem) http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23188 Ian Thomas (thelem) Sat, 07 Mar 2009 23:43:21 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23188 @chris "shouldn’t the major upgrade ‘trump’ the minor one" No - If a user is on 2.0.0.16 and knows they don't want to upgrade to 3.x (maybe they have incompatible add ons) then we still want them to upgrade to the latest 2.0.0.x release. You might want to consider a screen that offers them the choice of both, but I think that's a much more complicated discussion. @chris “shouldn’t the major upgrade ‘trump’ the minor one”

No – If a user is on 2.0.0.16 and knows they don’t want to upgrade to 3.x (maybe they have incompatible add ons) then we still want them to upgrade to the latest 2.0.0.x release. You might want to consider a screen that offers them the choice of both, but I think that’s a much more complicated discussion.

]]> By: jmdesp http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23030 jmdesp Fri, 06 Mar 2009 10:56:46 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-23030 @7 : pen, paper, scanner ;-) Really I think the solution is obvious. Enhance the update system, make it able to handle *branches* in update. Do you want to update to : - minor version 2.0.20 - major version 3.0.7 : Followed by a text enumerating a list of reasons to choose 3.0.7 ... I'd love to have that the nightlies, after the trunk has branched and I'm directed to the branch without an option to stay on the trunk, except to download a full version of the latest trunk. Also the text with the reason to choose 3.0.7 is *important*. A significant part of 2.0 users are deliberately keeping 2.0, because the first time they tried 3.0 they had some problem. The person who has a stable 2.0 install has a very high level of stability/feature requirements for a new version, that a 3.0.0 version might not fulfill. If you try to identify and solve them, then you'll need to explain them you have found and solved *their* problem with Firefox 3. @7 : pen, paper, scanner ;-)

Really I think the solution is obvious. Enhance the update system, make it able to handle *branches* in update.

Do you want to update to :
- minor version 2.0.20
- major version 3.0.7 : Followed by a text enumerating a list of reasons to choose 3.0.7 …

I’d love to have that the nightlies, after the trunk has branched and I’m directed to the branch without an option to stay on the trunk, except to download a full version of the latest trunk.

Also the text with the reason to choose 3.0.7 is *important*. A significant part of 2.0 users are deliberately keeping 2.0, because the first time they tried 3.0 they had some problem. The person who has a stable 2.0 install has a very high level of stability/feature requirements for a new version, that a 3.0.0 version might not fulfill.
If you try to identify and solve them, then you’ll need to explain them you have found and solved *their* problem with Firefox 3.

]]> By: juanb http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22996 juanb Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:44:31 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22996 Buried in the annals of Bugzilla, there are a few bugs explaining how the update mechanism is supposed to deal with both offers at the same time. We never did enable this scenario because we didn't feel comfortable about the update mechanism changes that were done to deal with Vista, which at the time we were just going to start to support, and AUS changes to deal with major updates. The idea was to offer both kinds of updates, minor having precedence over major, and have the user incrementally update his or her way up to the next big version of Firefox, with major update offers along the way. Minor updates were assumed to be smaller in size; they would offer stability and familiarity to the user, and we knew what to expect. Major updates were a different beast. After several iterations of major updates we should be a little more confident. Perhaps we can dig out those old bugs and see where we left off, and maybe it will turn out we can offer both at the same time with, hopefully, small changes. Buried in the annals of Bugzilla, there are a few bugs explaining how the update mechanism is supposed to deal with both offers at the same time. We never did enable this scenario because we didn’t feel comfortable about the update mechanism changes that were done to deal with Vista, which at the time we were just going to start to support, and AUS changes to deal with major updates.

The idea was to offer both kinds of updates, minor having precedence over major, and have the user incrementally update his or her way up to the next big version of Firefox, with major update offers along the way. Minor updates were assumed to be smaller in size; they would offer stability and familiarity to the user, and we knew what to expect. Major updates were a different beast.

After several iterations of major updates we should be a little more confident. Perhaps we can dig out those old bugs and see where we left off, and maybe it will turn out we can offer both at the same time with, hopefully, small changes.

]]> By: John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (addendum) http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22982 John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (addendum) Fri, 06 Mar 2009 03:17:22 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22982 [...] In all the edits/revisions of my earlier “Fun and Games with Major Updates” blogpost, somehow I dropped the following by accident: [...] [...] In all the edits/revisions of my earlier “Fun and Games with Major Updates” blogpost, somehow I dropped the following by accident: [...]

]]> By: Curious http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22944 Curious Thu, 05 Mar 2009 20:44:51 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22944 I know this is off topic ... but I'd like to know what you used to make those lil diagrams in this blog post. I know this is off topic … but I’d like to know what you used to make those lil diagrams in this blog post.

]]> By: marianoCuenze http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22927 marianoCuenze Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:21:44 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/04/fun-and-games-with-major-updates/#comment-22927 First, really clear explanation. Just a thought: why not do an update in the "update system" to allow this?: 1- check for all the 2.* upgrades (and offer to the user go to the last one ) 2- for every 2.* upgrade, check if there is a MU to "switch to" the 3.* line, if there is one (the first one), track all the upgrades until the "tip" of 3.* and offer that "tip version" to the user. then the user would see the last version in their "line" and in the "best current line", and he/she will choose in which line want to be. First, really clear explanation.

Just a thought: why not do an update in the “update system” to allow this?:

1- check for all the 2.* upgrades (and offer to the user go to the last one )
2- for every 2.* upgrade, check if there is a MU to “switch to” the 3.* line, if there is one (the first one), track all the upgrades until the “tip” of 3.* and offer that “tip version” to the user.

then the user would see the last version in their “line” and in the “best current line”, and he/she will choose in which line want to be.

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