Comments on: Fun and Games with Major Updates (followup) http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/ Just another WordPress weblog Tue, 24 Aug 2010 20:19:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Major update to Firefox 3.5 http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-33450 John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Major update to Firefox 3.5 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:08:38 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-33450 [...] (For details on race conditions where people dont see the major update dialog box and on the “update fatigue” debate, see: here, here, here, here, and finally here.) 3) Nick Thomas led a bunch of significant cleanup in RelEng infrastructure, so we can now create major updates quite easily and reliably. [...] [...] (For details on race conditions where people dont see the major update dialog box and on the “update fatigue” debate, see: here, here, here, here, and finally here.) 3) Nick Thomas led a bunch of significant cleanup in RelEng infrastructure, so we can now create major updates quite easily and reliably. [...]

]]> By: John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (some new options) http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-23555 John O’Duinn’s Soapbox » Fun and Games with Major Updates (some new options) Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:15:25 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-23555 [...] After the last few blog posts [1], [2], [3] explaining details of some gotchas, here are a few mechanical ideas which might help. I’m not sure which, if any, make sense to try, but wanted to point out some new options we have available to us now after infrastructure improvements over the last year, and would love to hear what people thought. [...] [...] After the last few blog posts [1], [2], [3] explaining details of some gotchas, here are a few mechanical ideas which might help. I’m not sure which, if any, make sense to try, but wanted to point out some new options we have available to us now after infrastructure improvements over the last year, and would love to hear what people thought. [...]

]]> By: John http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-23444 John Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:33:18 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-23444 >Q) Could Mozilla always leave a major update option available for users on latest FF1.5.0.x and FF2.0.0.x? > >Your answer to that question is misleading. There is always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox >1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x. The question is really if we can make the major update go *to* the _latest_ release, >which we aren’t currently doing. Sam, you raised three points: 1) Actually, nope, the question and answer are accurate - I think you misunderstood. The question remains about making sure that a user on the latest dot-release of the older release line could *always* see a major update offer to the newer release line. 2) The assertion that "There is always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox 1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x." is factually incorrect. There has *not* always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox 1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x. We have not done that for FF2. While I don't have complete records for FF1.5, I don't believe our major updates situation was any better for FF1.5 either. Here is the history of FF2 releases, listing each security releases and major update offer that we did: 17jun: FF3.0.0 released, no major update available 25aug: major update available Firefox 2.0.0.16->3.0.1 23sep: major update disabled by Firefox 2.0.0.17 release 04dec: major update available Firefox 2.0.0.18->3.0.4 16dec: major update disabled by Firefox 2.0.0.19 release 17dec: theoretical EOL date for FF2 08jan: major update available Firefox 2.0.0.20->3.0.5 There are 26 weeks between the release of FF3.0 and the theoretical EOL of FF2. Major update offers were only available 6 of the 26 weeks. This means that a fully motivated FF2 user who eagerly wanted to major update to FF3.0 could only see a major update offer for 6 of the 26 weeks. The proposal here was to change how we do releases, so that users could *always* see a major update offer. For all 26 of the 26 weeks. True, it would be nice if that major update offer was to the newest dot-release on the newer release line, and I think we can do that, but I'm focusing first on making sure users can always see *some* major update. Obviously, for FF1.5.0.14, now that we are no longer producing dot releases, the last major update offer we made available is still valid and visible. But that continuously visible offer only happens after we already EOL'd the older FF1.5 release line, and only after the critical 26 week initial period is already over. The same will be true for FF2 once we know we're never producing any new FF2 releases. 3) "The answer isn’t just about build work but also about QA work, see your first question/answer." Yes, I totally agree, this is multiple areas within the Mozilla project; RelEng and QA for sure, but additionally, this also impacts IT, release-drivers and lots of other areas. Hope that clarifies John. >Q) Could Mozilla always leave a major update option available for users on latest FF1.5.0.x and FF2.0.0.x?
>
>Your answer to that question is misleading. There is always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox
>1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x. The question is really if we can make the major update go *to* the _latest_ release,
>which we aren’t currently doing.

Sam, you raised three points:

1) Actually, nope, the question and answer are accurate – I think you misunderstood. The question remains about making sure that a user on the latest dot-release of the older release line could *always* see a major update offer to the newer release line.

2) The assertion that “There is always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox 1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x.” is factually incorrect. There has *not* always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox 1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x. We have not done that for FF2. While I don’t have complete records for FF1.5, I don’t believe our major updates situation was any better for FF1.5 either.

Here is the history of FF2 releases, listing each security releases and major update offer that we did:

17jun: FF3.0.0 released, no major update available
25aug: major update available Firefox 2.0.0.16->3.0.1
23sep: major update disabled by Firefox 2.0.0.17 release
04dec: major update available Firefox 2.0.0.18->3.0.4
16dec: major update disabled by Firefox 2.0.0.19 release
17dec: theoretical EOL date for FF2
08jan: major update available Firefox 2.0.0.20->3.0.5

There are 26 weeks between the release of FF3.0 and the theoretical EOL of FF2. Major update offers were only available 6 of the 26 weeks. This means that a fully motivated FF2 user who eagerly wanted to major update to FF3.0 could only see a major update offer for 6 of the 26 weeks.

The proposal here was to change how we do releases, so that users could *always* see a major update offer. For all 26 of the 26 weeks.

True, it would be nice if that major update offer was to the newest dot-release on the newer release line, and I think we can do that, but I’m focusing first on making sure users can always see *some* major update.

Obviously, for FF1.5.0.14, now that we are no longer producing dot releases, the last major update offer we made available is still valid and visible. But that continuously visible offer only happens after we already EOL’d the older FF1.5 release line, and only after the critical 26 week initial period is already over. The same will be true for FF2 once we know we’re never producing any new FF2 releases.

3) “The answer isn’t just about build work but also about QA work, see your first question/answer.” Yes, I totally agree, this is multiple areas within the Mozilla project; RelEng and QA for sure, but additionally, this also impacts IT, release-drivers and lots of other areas.

Hope that clarifies
John.

]]> By: Samuel Sidler http://oduinn.com/blog/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-23332 Samuel Sidler Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:18:54 +0000 http://oduinn.com/2009/03/09/fun-and-games-with-major-updates-followup/#comment-23332 Q) Could Mozilla always leave a major update option available for users on latest FF1.5.0.x and FF2.0.0.x? Your answer to that question is misleading. There is always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox 1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x. The question is really if we can make the major update go *to* the _latest_ release, which we aren't currently doing. The answer isn't just about build work but also about QA work, see your first question/answer. Q) Could Mozilla always leave a major update option available for users on latest FF1.5.0.x and FF2.0.0.x?

Your answer to that question is misleading. There is always a major update on the hook for the latest Firefox 1.5.0.x and 2.0.0.x. The question is really if we can make the major update go *to* the _latest_ release, which we aren’t currently doing. The answer isn’t just about build work but also about QA work, see your first question/answer.

]]>